Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan on reteaming for 'Sinners'

Ryan Coogler was the one who convinced Michael B. Jordan he could be a movie star. That was 13 years ago on "Fruitvale Station," Jordan's first time leading a feature film and Coogler's first time making one. And it was the start of an enviably rich creative collaboration that would take them from the Rocky franchise to Wakanda. In "Sinners," Coogler pushed his go-to actor to the next level: Jordan isn't just starring in the genre-bending big screen spectacle with blues music, vampires and Southern lore. He's playing identical twins. Over the years, Coogler has watched Jordan grow up on screen. While he may have started as the young man being mentored in his films, on "Sinners" he saw Jordan become "the elder statesmen" on camera and off taking newcomers like Miles Caton under his wing. The two spoke to The Associated Press about upping the ante with "Sinners," the excitement of making something original and how the experience changed them. Remarks have been edited for clarity and brevity. AP: After so many films together, are you still able to surprise and challenge one another? COOGLER: Always. What's great is, though it may seem like we're together all the time, we go a long, long time without seeing each other. We keep in touch. We check in for major life milestones. We've got business together that's long lasting, like the Creed franchise. We always going to be tucked in and connected there. Our families are connected. But the intensity of our work is very seasonal. When we have a project and when we get back together, we've always found ways to up the ante. This time he came back and he'd just directed a movie. That gave him a new perspective and like a new set of tools. When I work with an actor who's capable of all the things Mike is, I also know that I gotta tell him, "Hey man, it's OK to let all that go." It is not dissimilar to a conversation I had with Stallone. And for me it's exciting to provide him opportunities to stretch in ways. I knew he had Killmonger in him. I knew he had Adonis Creed in him. Obviously, I knew he had a portrayal of Oscar Grant there, and I knew that he could do this, but I did not have any comprehension of how well he was going to do it. AP: How did this being Ryan's first original film make it feel different? JORDAN: There's nothing for you to pull from that already exists. There's no boundaries, no limitations, there's no preconceived notions. I have the original source right there. There were so many things that maybe weren't on the page, but through conversation and through debate we discovered something else that kind of came from that. Like we were trying to figure out the rules with this particular set of vampires, with this particular environment, in this world, in this universe we're building. There was a lot of laughter and lightness discovering those things. That felt really good, but because it was from him, he was the judge, juror and executioner. AP: Did this experience change you? COOGLER: Each movie does that. Each time I discover something about myself and the world around me. This had a pressure on it and a lot of that was self-imposed. Though I've spent the better part of my adulthood making movies professionally and releasing them theatrically, filmgoers don't really know that much about me, just by the fact that it's surprising to people that I'm making a film with horror elements. Anybody who knows me knows I love those types of movies. I've also been thinking about the Great Migration, talking to older family members, interviewing the ones who came to Oakland from other places. A lot of what triggered that kind of came around the death of my Uncle James. When he passed away he was the oldest male member of my family, and the last one who was from Mississippi. Losing him left me with blues music, I would listen to all his records to kind of try to conjure his spirit. That was what the main motivation was behind all this. This whole thing was an exercise in exposing my own interests, both cinematically and personally. JORDAN: Through my relationship with Ryan and the movies that he's curious about, the stories that he wants to tell, I'm in proximity of that and I'm doing the same exploration. Now I have this deep education, this deep understanding of the Jim Crow South and blues music. Also this idea of freedom and another layered idea of what family is and what my grandparents went through. While I was filming, my dad came down to visit me and I talked a lot with my mom, and she was sending me old pictures of my grandparents when they were young like partying and things like that. All that stuff kind of puts some things in perspective. It reframed things for me a little bit. And I'm really grateful for that. AP: How did it alter your understanding of America? COOGLER: It's in the title of the movie, "Sinners." The act of passing judgment, the act of casting judgment is something that we do here in this country on both this time period, like the 1930s, the Great Depression era, and the height of the Jim Crow era. It's a very difficult period for people to reckon with in almost every culture universally. It's oftentimes passed over, like, not wanting to be looked at, dealt with, reckoned with, because of all the difficulties associated with it. And in not looking at that, not interrogating it, you also leave out a lot of beauty and the insane strength and resolve and dignity of these people that produced this art form that basically fueled global popular culture. The American South, there's a lot of judgment about people down there, like "They talk different. They're not as sharp." And the reality being, you really look at it, they're some of the sharpest people. A lot of the evil that was done down there was not done out of ignorance, it was done very consciously and for reasons often associated with business. All the false narratives of that time really spoke to me during the process of making this film and I came out of it with a renewed respect for myself, my ancestors and on the world. It makes me want to interrogate everything.